Lee Brainard: Explaining and Defending the Pretribulation Rapture

10 Potent Proofs for the Pre-Trib Rapture w/ Lee Brainard | Worldview Matters

Is the pre-tribulation Rapture biblical—or a modern myth? Host David Fiorazo sits down with Bible teacher/author Lee Brainard to unpack his new book, 10 Potent Proofs for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. They address one of the most abused passages (2 Thessalonians 2:1–3), the Jewish context of Matthew 24, why John 14:1–3 points to heaven (not earth), and the clear differences between the Rapture and the Second Coming. Get equipped to contend for the faith with Scripture, not slogans.

What you’ll learn

• Why the Rapture debate gets so heated—and how to respond with grace and truth
• The Jewish framework of the 70th week (Daniel 9) and Matthew 24
• Deliverance from wrath (Revelation 3:10) vs. ordinary persecution
• 2 Thessalonians 2: What the text actually says about the Day of the Lord
• Rapture ≠ Second Coming: saints taken vs. saints left, morning star vs. sunrise
• Practical tips to share the gospel & prophecy with your family, friends, and neighbors

Key Scriptures

John 14:1–3; 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18; 1 Corinthians 15:51–53; 2 Thessalonians 2:1–12; Revelation 3:10; Matthew 24–25; Daniel 9; Zechariah 13

About our guest

Lee Brainard is a Bible teacher and author at Soothkeep Ministries.
Website: https://soothkeep.info
Book: 10 Potent Proofs for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture (Amazon)

Resources & links

• Worldview Matters: https://WorldviewMatters.tv
• Sponsor — FreedomProject Academy: https://FreedomForSchool.com (save 10% on tuition)
• Contact/Sponsorship: [email protected]

Explaining and Defending the Pretribulation Rapture

Announcer: Welcome to Worldview Matters: discussing controversial issues, discerning current events, defending biblical Christianity. No topic off limits. And now, here’s your host, David Fiorazo.

David Fiorazo: Hey friends and family in Christ, thank you so much for tuning in. Very important topic today—we’re going to talk about one of the most abused passages of Scripture. As my guest Lee Brainard and I just shared before we got on the air, he’s a Bible teacher and author. I want to give you his website: if you’re not familiar with Lee (I hope you are), it is soothkeep.info. And he’s got a brand-new book out that’s very important and we need to talk about: it’s called 10 Potent Proofs for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. I love that cover. It’s available on Amazon. Lee Brainard, welcome to Worldview Matters. Good to see you, brother.

Lee Brainard: David, it’s great to be with you on your program. And man, are we talking about an issue today that has become a hot potato!

David: Yes it has—and through the decades it didn’t used to be. About 50 years ago, maybe not as much. But now it’s very controversial—the Rapture. I love what you have on the homepage of your website from Jude 13: “earnestly contend for the faith.” These are issues we really have to contend for; as you say, “the pursuit, defense, and propagation of truth.” I appreciate you, brother—your writing and the brand-new book hot off the press.

Wait—I’ve got to read something before we go on. I found a note from Terry James. When Terry James talks, everybody should listen. He said:

“While recently attending the Prophecy Watchers conference in Colorado Springs—at which Lee and I were speakers—my friend Lee Brainard and I discussed his book. I’ve since looked at it in depth and concluded that it is one of the best treatments of the pre-trib Rapture I’ve read.” —Terry James

That’s an eye-opener, if you know how amazing Terry James and his ministry are. To get those fine words as a reference on your Amazon page for the book—wow.

Tell us about the conferences—you’ve got a couple coming up in September.

Lee: Yes. The first weekend in September I’ll be with Brandon Holthaus at his Prophecy conference—it’s going to cover what the upcoming election has to say about prophetic convergence. Then the third weekend in September I’ll be with Steve Schmutzer in Fort Collins, Colorado. We’ll have a number of great speakers, including J. B. Hixson, Mondo Gonzalez, and a number of other Bible scholars. Should be a great time. Folks, prophetic convergence is getting red hot—and Christians who love prophetic convergence are getting red hot!

David: Praise God—that looks phenomenal. I’m looking at all these guys. I think I’ve had every one of them on the podcast except for Bill Salus. I mean Carl Teichrib, Mondo Gonzalez… We finally nailed down a time with you, Lee! John Hower, Alex Newman—he’s one of our colleagues here at FreedomProject—Bill Koenig, Brandon Holthaus, Billy Crone, Tom Hughes is coming up in a few weeks. We’re so thankful for these conferences.

But even more importantly, I know you’re one of the speakers and authors who travels to equip the saints. Before we dive into your brand-new book, speak to people who love to study the Word, love to go to conferences—but then we’ve got to take another step and get this information out there. Not just take it all in. Your thoughts?

Lee: I think every believer has the gifting and ability to communicate the gospel and the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. The gospel and the second coming are the two poles on which the globe of redemption spins. If you go out there with just the gospel, without the second coming, your globe is going to wobble. If you have the second coming without the gospel, your globe is going to wobble. So take the information you have—you may never have a world-class platform, but you have your neighbors, family, friends, and workmates. Just go do what God has given you—and see what God does.

David: I love that. I’m looking behind you—people can see to your left (our right) shelves full of gospel tracts and a massive number of books. Lee said he’s got a couple other rooms with all kinds of books. We’re paper guys—we’re handheld guys! I love the gospel tracts—we should always have them in our car. Very important point: we’re not to be just consumers of the Word or biblical knowledge. “Knowledge puffs up, love builds up.” We need to share. That’s why I love having guests like you—committed to the gospel and sound doctrine.

Let me go through the table of contents. Friends, the book is on Amazon: 10 Potent Proofs for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. Here are the chapters:

1. The Distinct Future of Israel
2. 70th Week Appointed for Israel
3. Israel in the Tribulation
4. Deliverance from Wrath
5. Church in Heaven Before Tribulation
6. Types of the Rapture
7. The Coming of the Son of Man
8. The Nature of the Seals
9. Rapture and Second Coming Distinguished
10. The Body and Bride of Christ

Lee, where do you want to start? We don’t want to give it all away—it’s not a long book, which I really like. It’s not “easy,” but it’s engaging and concise—not one of those massive 500-page volumes. Very important information, condensed, and you break it up well. Give an overview: why is this so important?

Lee: We’re living in a day when, if you go on social media—YouTube, Twitter (well, X now; maybe we should call it Zitter)—no matter where you go, people are railing on the pre-trib Rapture: “There’s no proof… It was invented in the 1830s by J. N. Darby… Darby got it from a pagan girl listening to a demonic spirit,” and so on. The fact is, the Bible is filled with proofs—or evidences—for a pre-trib Rapture. I decided to present ten arguments. It’s not exhaustive, but it’s solid—and write it in a short book (120 pages) so anyone—even a slow reader—can sit down and digest the arguments one at a time. Every one of them, standing alone, is a solid argument.

David: You broke it into ten chapters—only 120 pages—ten powerful arguments for lay people to share or use in debates. As you said on the back cover, “The Rapture is one of the most heated debates in the church.” I find that interesting—you used the word heated. It’s not just a debate; it can get heated. Unfortunately—I’ve heard this and seen this—I don’t believe in breaking fellowship with people who have different views (unless it’s false teaching: another gospel, another Jesus). But why did you decide to say heated? I’m sure you’ve seen this.

Lee: Yes. Because my average engagement—say, with pre-wrath—has not been with a scholarly gentleman like John Hower (he is amazing). My average conversation is people railing on me as a heretic “sending people to hell” because “they’re going to go into the tribulation and they’re not going to be ready,” “they’ll take the mark of the beast,” and so on. They’re angry.

People don’t get convinced out of the pre-trib Rapture; they get bullied out of it. I want to give them strong arguments so when they get bullied, they’re able to stand their ground.

David: Do you think it’s biblical illiteracy? You use the word proofs in the title—10 Potent Proofs for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. Is it that people just don’t know the Word, or they’ve believed talking points attacking pre-trib and stuck with them?

Lee: Both. People don’t spend enough time reading the Bible and letting the Bible be its own interpreter. And we’re dealing with a very wise enemy who sows error in the church using Scripture. The devil knows the Bible as well as any scholar—he just doesn’t believe it; he hates it and twists it. So when we try to convince people of pre-trib, we often have to undo their prejudices. If we can’t help them over the fences they’re stuck behind, they can’t really weigh the arguments.

David: I want to pull a quote from the introduction. You wrote:

“In the fall of 1989, after a thousand hours of research on the timing of the Rapture over nine years, I experienced a sudden and forceful change.”

You hadn’t always held this belief. You said you’d been trading letters with a preacher friend who chipped away at your sticking points and made it abundantly clear from the Bible that the economy in the tribulation was Jewish—that tribulation passages focus on Messianic Jews who believe in Jesus and observe the Sabbath and the temple service. It dawned on you that you were overlooking or ignoring the Jewish context of Matthew 24 and other passages.

Very important point: context. Who was the Bible written to? At that time—Sabbath and temple service—that’s not the American church. Go ahead.

Lee: This is a common problem. As a young believer, I went to Matthew 24, saw saints in the tribulation, and boom—that settled it. It took a few years for people to point out: are you looking at Christians in Matthew 24? If by “Christian” you mean “believes in the Messiah,” yes. But are they church-age Christians, or Messianic believers in the tribulation (i.e., Jewish)? They’re held accountable to the Sabbath by God—not merely by the Jews themselves. And God Himself declares the temple to be “the holy place.” That’s God’s estimation.

Once you see that, you realize the 70th week belongs to the 70 weeks declared upon Daniel’s people and Daniel’s city (Jerusalem and Israel). The 70th week has to be cut from the same piece of cloth as the first 69 weeks. In the Gospels (end of the 69th), people are still Jews, still obligated to the Mosaic Law, and also obligated to believe on Jesus. The 70th week will pick up in exactly the same place: the Jewish people obligated to the Law—not because the Law saves, but because the Law is the schoolmaster designed by God to turn the Jews to their Messiah. In the 70th week, this program will be successful: according to Zechariah 13, one-third of the Jews will believe on the Messiah—that will be the greatest national revival in the history of the world.

David: Phenomenal stuff. We’ve got to take a brief pause. When we come back, we’ll talk about 2 Thessalonians 2:1–3, touch on John 14, and talk about deliverance from wrath—one of the proofs in the new book. We’ll be right back on Worldview Matters.

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David: Back to our guest Lee Brainard and the brand-new book 10 Potent Proofs for the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. Lee, on page 51—I love John 14:1–3—so powerful. You say it’s one of your favorite arguments for the pre-trib Rapture. Jesus said:

“In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”

Take it away.

Lee: I love this passage. The very next time the Lord Jesus physically interacts with the church—when we’re in His physical presence—He’s taking us not from point A on earth to point B on earth, but from point A on earth to the courts of New Jerusalem above. We’re going to heaven, and we’ll be with Him there forever. Where is Jesus right now? In heaven. Where did He go when He left? Heaven. Where is He preparing those mansions? In heaven. So these mansions can’t be rooms in an earthly temple—they must be in the Father’s house.

I get so excited thinking about this. Someday soon we’re out of this sewer of unbelief and in the presence of God—to breathe fresh, pure, holy air for the rest of our lives.

David: It’s one of the comforting chapters too—“Do not let your hearts be troubled,” Jesus said. Believe in God; believe also in Me.

I want to go back to the beginning of that chapter. People try to reason: “Why would we escape God’s wrath or persecution when others through the centuries didn’t? Why would those at the end get raptured and escape that?” They’re leaning on their own understanding, aren’t they?

Lee: They sure are. The church has had nearly 2,000 years to suffer tribulation with Christ. This is the time of Christ’s patience—when He Himself is enduring reproach and persecution. This time is going to end, according to Revelation 3:10:

“Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.”

This isn’t a matter of the last generation “escaping” ordinary tribulation. The last generation is removed from tribulation for two reasons: first, this tribulation is such extreme tribulation that it’s actually judgment; and second, the church’s time to suffer tribulation with Christ is over. The Lord is returning His focus to Israel to give her a second time, so national Israel can receive her Old Testament promises on the basis of the New Covenant—she cannot receive them any other way.

David: Good point. Let’s jump to 2 Thessalonians 2. Right before we got on, you said this is one of the most abused portions of Scripture. Why?

Lee: In 2 Thessalonians 2:1–3 we read (primarily KJV with minor adjustments):

“Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of the Lord is present. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day is not present, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.”

This is a standard petition common in classical and Koine Greek literature. It has three parts: (1) the verb of petition (“beseech”), (2) the petition itself (“that you be not soon shaken… as that the day of the Lord is present”), and (3) the optional huper clause (ὑπέρ) translated “by” in the KJV—“by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him.” The huper clause in a petition gives the ground or reason for the petition.

So, the petition is: “Don’t be worried that you’re in the Day of the Lord.” The reason for the petition is: by the coming and gathering—in other words, by the Rapture. Paraphrase: We beseech you, brethren, not to worry about being in the Day of the Lord because we’re going up, not going through.

The problem is that since the rise of pre-tribulation teaching, most modern translations have rendered the preposition huper as if it were peri (“concerning”), and then proceed as though Paul were saying, “Now we will tell you about the coming and the Rapture,” and end up equating the Rapture with the Day of the Lord. This passage contrasts them: by the Rapture, don’t fear the Day of the Lord.

Lower in the passage, we see that “that day is not present unless the man of sin be revealed.” If you see the man of sin, you’re in the Day of the Lord. If you don’t, you’re not. When people equate the Rapture and the Day of the Lord, they wrongly say, “See? We’re not going up until after the Antichrist.” That’s an abuse of the passage.

David: You also clarify this in a chart on page 58. I’m a visual guy—columns help me. Describe that briefly.

Lee: I lay out the verb of request (αἰτέω / “we beseech”), then the request (“that ye be not soon shaken… as that the Day of the Lord is present”), then the reason—the huper clause—rendered in the KJV as “by the coming of our Lord… and our gathering together unto Him.” The paraphrase is simply: because of the Rapture. Treat this passage the same way petitions are treated everywhere else in Greek literature, and you’re forced to conclude Paul contrasts the Rapture with the Day of the Lord: we’re going up in the Rapture; we’re not going through the Day of the Lord.

David: People try to make this the exception—“It can’t be the rule like everywhere else.” Thank you for that. We’re running out of time. Briefly, Proof 9: Rapture and Second Coming Distinguished. One heading is “One Coming and Two Aspects.” You also talk about “Saints taken vs. saints left.” Touch on that, then we’ll wrap.

Lee: In the classic Rapture passages—Revelation 3:10; 1 Thessalonians 4:13–18; John 14:1–3—saints are removed from earth, taken out of this world, delivered and brought into blessing. In the Second Coming passages—like the kingdom parables in Matthew 13, or the coming of the Son of Man in Matthew 25 with the sheep and goats—the ungodly are the ones removed, and the godly are those left. You can’t conflate these without confusion. If at one time the Lord removes the godly and leaves the ungodly, and at another He removes the ungodly and leaves the godly, you’re looking at two distinct events.

In that same chapter I give other distinctions, including that the type of the Rapture is the morning star of the Day of the Lord; the type of the tribulation is the dawning of the Day; and the type of the Second Coming is the sunrise of the Day. You absolutely cannot conflate the morning star and the sunrise unless you intentionally shut out the light of Scripture and decide to come up with your own understanding instead of the Bible’s.

David: Amen. Friends, you can get this on Amazon right now; I’m sure it’ll be on your website as well: soothkeep.info. Love Lee’s heart for the truth, the gospel, and the truth of the Rapture.

In the end you talk about a spirit of error—one reason people believe talking points without diving into what you’ve laid out. How do you overcome that? Is it discernment? Give a brief encouragement to be careful about what’s being said out there.

Lee: We absolutely have to be Bereans who seek biblical theology—plain statements of Scripture interpreted by plain statements of Scripture, and all that Scripture says on the subject. If we go the other way, we’ll take a few proof texts with an “official” interpretation and be led astray. Stick with the whole counsel of God.

David: Thanks for the warning. Friends, check out the book. Lee, Lord willing, we’ll do this again—have you back on this or another topic. Very important. God bless you, brother. Enjoy the conferences—I’m sure they’ll go well.

Lee: Thank you, brother. I’ve enjoyed being with Worldview Matters.

David: It’s a blessing. Friends, please share the podcast. We appreciate you so much—your support and prayers. God bless you—and as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.