Chuck Missler: Chuck Missler & Hal Lindsey – An Interview

Legendary Bible teachers Chuck Missler and Hal Lindsey sit down for an in-depth conversation on Israel, the Middle East, and end-times Bible prophecy. Filmed in California at Hal Lindsey’s home and originally broadcast on January 14, this interview explores Israel’s place in Scripture, current geopolitics, and the signs Jesus said to watch.

Topics Covered

• Israel’s role in biblical eschatology

• Geopolitical trends shaping the Middle East

• The Rapture and the Second Coming

• Technology, culture, and “signs of the times”

• Practical watchfulness and hope for believers

Chuck Missler & Hal Lindsey – An Interview and Conversation on Israel and End-Times

Chuck Missler:
Well, Hal, it’s been a long time since we’ve been able to really look into the latest things happening regarding the coming of the Lord—the signs that are there. I’ve been looking forward to this: just getting together, exchanging a few ideas. The world is going so crazy; I’m anxious to get your perspective too.

Hal Lindsey:
You know what? I see that everywhere I turn—and I know you’ve seen this, too—people are scared. The apathy seems to have turned to fear, and that’s scary in itself. A lot of people who know nothing about Bible prophecy are talking about the fact that it seems like things are coming to some sort of crescendo—some kind of end.

We see it in young people, too: they have no sense of destiny. And the more you watch what’s going on—not only in Washington, but on Wall Street—the less sense it makes. The more you know about that world, the more bizarre it all is.

Chuck:
Indeed. From your perspective, what are two or three of the most important developments that you’ve noticed—things that fulfill the signs we’ve watched for so many years?

Hal:
As you taught me from the beginning: if you want to know what time it is, look at Israel—always.

I have vivid memories as a child of people thinking Hitler was the Antichrist. But there were two men on the radio—H. A. Ironside and M. R. DeHaan—who said Hitler could not be the Antichrist because Israel was not in the land. They were regarded as fringe fundamentalists with a crazy view, because “everyone knew” Israel was finished after A.D. 70.

Then on May 14, 1948, that debate should have ended. I remember how impressed I was by their courage to insist on the literal Word. They were right, of course, because Israel was formed—just as Isaiah said—in a day. The fact that Israel is in the land today is an incredible milestone in human history. We run the risk of taking it for granted. That’s my first point.

Chuck:
I’ve called that a hinge of history. Few people realize how colossal a fulfillment of prophecy that was. They need to read Ezekiel 34–39 to see how great it is.

Hal:
You asked for a second. Here’s a strange one. I get tired of prophecy buffs pointing to the “signs” in Matthew 24—wars and rumors of wars, etc.—where Jesus says, “the end is not yet.” To me, He’s saying those are not signs of the end; they’ll happen, but they’re not the indicators.

In contrast, I vividly remember that up until maybe 10 years ago, if a good Jewish friend was making aliyah to Israel, it was fine if he was secular or a Gentile. But if he was a Jew who believed in Jesus as Messiah, he was warned by friends to keep it a secret or he’d be marginalized from the day he arrived. If you were a Jewish believer, you kept that to yourself.

Recently, I learned there are 350 Messianic fellowships in Israel. They’re not large, but they’re open about believing in Yeshua and about their Jewish identity. That’s fantastic.

To some extent, this openness has been pushed by the extremes of the ultra-Orthodox world. The most venerated ultra-Orthodox rabbi in Israel’s modern history, Rabbi Yitzhak Kaduri, died at a very advanced age (at least 108). Over 250,000 people attended his funeral. He left a sealed note with instructions that it not be opened until one year after his death. He had told his followers he had met the Messiah—which is remarkable. When the note was opened (February 2007, reported in Israel Today), it declared—however one parses the acrostic—that the Messiah’s name is Yehoshua (Joshua/Jesus).

That bombshell dropped into the ultra-Orthodox community. They didn’t know what to do with it, especially since Jewish etiquette discourages speaking ill of the dead after a year. Carl Gallups wrote a book on this, The Rabbi Who Found Messiah.

My point: with things like this—and the growth of Messianic groups—I sense the blindness is beginning to lift. That’s exactly what Paul says in Romans 11:25: Israel is blinded in part until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. I’ve always taken that as an idiom for the Church (not to be confused with the “times of the Gentiles,” from Nebuchadnezzar to the Antichrist). When the fullness is complete, I picture the Father saying to the Son, “Go get them.”

Another thing that’s hit me this last year: Jesus has yearnings. It’s hard to grasp—He’s the Son of God, omnipotent. But in John 17, He yearns to have us with Him. Easy to say, hard to embrace—but that’s His heart.

So, those are two signs—and both are Israel-centric.

Chuck:
Throw in a third?

Hal:
This isn’t so much a sign as a litmus test for how literally we take prophecy. I believe Babylon, the city on the Euphrates, must re-emerge in world history as a major influence to receive the judgment detailed in Isaiah 13–14 and Jeremiah 50–51. Both prophets say it will be destroyed like Sodom and Gomorrah—sudden, permanent, never inhabited—which has never happened historically. (People have reused Babylon’s building materials; I’ve got some of those bricks.)

So I suspect we’ll see Babylon rise again. One possibility: the U.N. might relocate. They need more space, New Yorkers want them out, and they won’t go to Paris or London (competitors). If you ask, “What’s the planet’s biggest challenge over the next five decades?”—energy. So, plant the U.N. in the middle of the oil patch. Some Beltway white papers have floated this—not by influential people, but the idea is out there. If it happens, it won’t be sudden. It’ll be debated, planned, and developed over time—a prerequisite to Armageddon and the Lord’s return.

That leads me to another perception: the Harpazo (Rapture) and the Second Coming may be separated by a substantial period—perhaps a decade or two. Our charts often compress the timeline. I think the Harpazo is very close; the Second Coming could be farther out.

Chuck:
I’ve always believed ancient Babylon will be rebuilt. And I agree: the Rapture likely happens before Babylon’s rise. People assume the seven-year Tribulation begins immediately after the Rapture, but 2 Thessalonians 2 indicates the Antichrist cannot be revealed until after the Rapture; he then gains power sufficient to enforce a covenant. That could take hours—or many years. We agree there.

And yes—the late great planet Earth: how many languages was it translated into?

Hal:
Fifty-four (that we know of). There were pirated editions, and I’m happy they existed.

Chuck:
You can’t go anywhere on Earth without meeting someone impacted by that book. It’s exciting to reconnect with you. Our travel paths just haven’t crossed.

From New Zealand, I often meet international execs in airport lounges. They all say the same thing: when they’re in Europe or Asia, they look at Washington and Wall Street with bewilderment—it’s insanity. When they’re in the U.S., it seems like business as usual. People presume things will work out. They haven’t done the math. They don’t grasp how serious the predicament is—that the U.S. has effectively slid into a police state. From outside the country, it’s more obvious.

And that leads to the mystery of Obama. Here’s a man about whom we know virtually nothing—no classmates, no girlfriends, no paper trail—and yet he sat in the most powerful chair on Earth. The collusion it took for mainstream media to hide the truth from the electorate should be treasonous.

I don’t see him as the Antichrist—he’s not bright enough. (Ann Coulter calls him the “Manchurian Teleprompter.”) But I’m curious: what’s your sense of what will happen in Washington?

Hal:
For over 50 years I’ve said: in the prophecies of the very last days leading up to Christ’s return, there is no place for a superpower like the United States. The leader of the West is a revived Roman Empire. For that reason, I’ve long said the U.S. has to fade from power—not necessarily be destroyed, but taken from the lead.

Chuck:
For decades, in Q&A sessions, two questions always came up: “Where is the U.S. in prophecy?” and “Why hasn’t God judged America?” (Billy Graham: “If God doesn’t judge America, He’ll have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah.”)

My answer leaned on Genesis 12:2–3—because of our support for Israel, we have a shield protecting us from overdue judgment. I don’t get those questions anymore. And I don’t worry about Israel—her future is in God’s hands. I do worry about America. For the first time in my memory, we’ve turned against Israel. People ask if God’s wrath has started. I say yes—abandonment wrath, as with the Northern Kingdom.

Another unresolved issue: Ezekiel 39:6. During the Gog/Magog invasion, hailstones of fire fall on Magog and on those who “dwell securely in the coastlands.” That’s a third party—not Magog, not Israel. Who are they? Could it be saber-rattling from a nation like the United States provoking an exchange? Our nukes are visible in chapter 39 cleanup. It’s a hint I can’t fully illuminate yet.

Hal:
That’s a good thing to be haunted by—there’s a good chance that means us.

Chuck:
When you called me months ago: “Why New Zealand?” I teased you—EMP (electromagnetic pulse). The only defense is to change hemispheres. Also, all nuclear combatants (China, Russia, Europe, U.S.) are in the Northern Hemisphere. Time to join us in New Zealand! (I was kidding—but it does disturb people.)

The real question: how do we minister to young people? They lack a foundation of optimism. How do we give them a sense of destiny?

Hal:
On EMP: a crude nuclear device detonated at altitude could cripple the grid. Iran has openly sworn to destroy both Israel and the United States (“the Great Satan”). Israel’s defense minister recently said Iran is within weeks of being able to produce a crude bomb. Launch a missile 200 miles offshore, detonate at altitude over the eastern U.S., and you could knock out the grid for 70% of the population. Recovery would be extremely difficult.

Chuck:
And the current administration has embraced what patriots died fighting against. The NDAA effectively nullifies the Bill of Rights (trial by jury, etc.). Most Americans have no idea. It’s a painful blessing—the puncturing of a delusion. The America we signed up for is gone.

Hal:
It’s been a long time, Chuck. We first met in 1972—about 43 years. Most people know we’re old friends. What they may not know is that you are the reason I went into full-time ministry. You encouraged me to make my hobby my profession. Through your sponsorship and protection, I took that path.

Chuck:
We formed Koinonia House (the publisher), and later created a think tank, the Koinonia Institute. I set aside some honorary gold medallions for people we’d honor publicly. Our emblem bears, in Greek, “Now we see through a glass darkly; then face to face,” surrounded by the Shema in Hebrew. If you’ll accept this as an honorary member, it would bless me.

Hal:
I’m greatly honored. It’s beautiful. I love you, brother.

Chuck:
I love you too. The Lord used Walter Martin and Chuck Smith in my life—but you recruited me into full-time ministry. I praise the Lord to be connected with you and to scheme together again.

Hal:
You’ve been listening to my dear friend Chuck Missler. He’s had an extraordinary ministry and does unusual things—but they’re effective. I’m very grateful. Thank you, my friend.

Chuck:
Thank you. God bless you. God willing, we’ll talk again soon.