Discussions with JR. Church about Enoch

Unlock the mysteries of the Great Pyramid of Giza with guest filmmaker Ken Klein on Prophecy in the News. Was it really Pharaoh Khufu’s tomb—or something far older and far different? In this eye-opening conversation with J.R. Church and Gary Stearman, Ken presents research and rare interior footage he captured (under strict filming restrictions) to explore the Pyramid’s purpose, precision, and possible biblical connections.

What you’ll learn

• Why the common “Khufu/Cheops tomb” theory leans on shaky pillars (Herodotus’ late report, a tiny “statue,” and the controversial Howard Vyse red-ochre inscription).
• The Inventory Stele claim that Khufu repaired—rather than built—the Great Pyramid and Sphinx.
• The unprecedented engineering: ~2.4 million blocks, casing-stone tolerances ~1/50", mortar sealing, and the argument that a 20–30 year build is unrealistic.
• The absence of hieroglyphs on the three Giza pyramids (unlike other Egyptian monuments).
• Astronomical and geodetic curiosities: Orion’s Belt alignment, placement on granite bedrock, proximity to the center of Earth’s landmass, and height tied to Earth’s mean altitude.
• Biblical threads discussed: Isaiah 19:19–20 (“altar… and pillar in Egypt”), Job’s “foundation stone,” 1 Chronicles 28:18, and traditions around Enoch and Elohim.

About the guest & footage

Ken Klein produced The Pillar of Enoch: The Lost Legend of the Great Pyramid and later a three-film series (Message from the Stars, Gateway to the Galaxy). To document inside the Pyramid, he describes using compact “spy” gear due to filming bans, providing a rare look at interior spaces.

Mentioned Scriptures

• Isaiah 19:19–20
• Job (foundation stone imagery)
• 1 Chronicles 28:18

If you’re curious about:

• Ancient engineering that still stuns modern builders
• Whether the Great Pyramid predates the pharaonic dynasties
• How biblical prophecy might intersect with archaeology

…this discussion is for you.

Discussions with JR. Church about Enoch

J. R. Church:
The Great Pyramid is one of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World. Who built it? Why is it still around, and what’s happened to it in the years since it was built? There’s great history behind it. In fact, it seems to be mentioned in the Bible. A few months ago we came across The Pillar of Enoch, a study of the Great Pyramid—the lost legend of the Great Pyramid—and we want to talk with Ken Klein, the man who produced this tremendous video, again on today’s Prophecy in the News. Gary Stearman is here; Ken Klein is here. Gary, we’ve got a lot to talk about, and it’s a pleasure to have Ken Klein with us today.

Gary Stearman:
Ken, welcome to Prophecy in the News. Let’s talk about the Great Pyramid, which most people believe is a tomb. There’s this man commonly known as Cheops—Khufu is the Egyptian form, Cheops the Grecian—and everybody believes it’s his tomb. Let’s talk about that.

Ken Klein:
The basis for that belief goes way back in time, and today it’s built upon three what I would call dubious “facts” of history. One is Herodotus, known as the father of history, who in the 4th century BC decided to make a trip to the Giza Plateau where the Great Pyramid was built. He was fascinated—as so many people are—with the Great Pyramid. Millions every year go there just to see this incredible structure. It’s the first wonder of the world and the last remaining wonder of the world, and it remains for a lot of reasons that we’ll get into later.

He went there about the 4th century BC to try to find out who built the Great Pyramid and how it was done—the same kinds of questions we’re asking today. He went at least 2,000 years after it was built—that’s about the same distance from us back to Jesus’ time. That’s a lot of time. So how do you pick up the trail? Basically, he talked to the townspeople and learned that this was the tomb of Khufu (Cheops is the Greek name). Then he tried to figure out how long it took to build the Great Pyramid, and he calculated 30 years.

But when you look into his calculations and some external factors—such as the width and depth of the Nile, how they would have moved the blocks on boats, and so forth—under careful scrutiny his calculations don’t make sense. Yet, if you went to Egypt today and talked to Dr. Zahi Hawass, the head of the Department of Antiquities, he would stridently hold fast that Herodotus made accurate calculations. That’s one of the first tenets upon which the Tomb Theory rests. But there are others.

Gary Stearman:
Let’s talk about Khufu, now called Cheops. When we think of statues of pharaohs, we think of the big Ramses statue—what has to be 120 feet tall—and all these incredible monuments. Where are the statues of Khufu?

Ken Klein:
That’s one of the things they build it on—the existence of a “statue of Khufu.” I went looking for it because I’d seen it in magazines. I tracked it down at the Egyptian Museum and went inside to look at it. I had a guide with me. When I saw it, I started laughing—it was so ridiculous. It’s about three inches tall. It looks like it’s carved out of soap. And it says his name is written on it. It was found several hundred miles from the Giza Plateau. How do you connect this tiny statue with the Great Pyramid and make that quantum leap in logic? It doesn’t make any sense at all. Yet it’s another tenet used to claim the Great Pyramid is the tomb of Khufu. It’s just silly.

J. R. Church:
Let me mention that the Greeks call Herodotus the father of history, but Flavius Josephus, 2,000 years ago, called Herodotus the “father of lies.” That’s how much he thought of Herodotus’ writings. There were many things wrong with them that didn’t make sense when compared to the writings of the Hebrews. By the way, the writings of Flavius Josephus—The Antiquities of the Jews—start with creation, talk about Seth, Noah, the flood, Moses, and all of Jewish history. Josephus says the Hebrews were correct, and that Herodotus extrapolated his own ideas into history.

Ken Klein:
If you look at the Great Pyramid, there are 2.4 million core blocks. They average anywhere from three to five tons each. Those blocks had to be carved out and moved—often across the river. The Nile overflooded in the rainy season, so the actual time you could have worked on the Great Pyramid would have been cut to nine months. They didn’t have lights at night. To fit Herodotus’ timeframe, they would have had to put a stone in place every minute and a half, 24/7, for 20 years non-stop. That doesn’t even include the time it took to cut out the casing stones, which were 15 tons each and carved on each side to such precision that when you put them together the distance between the spaces was 1/50th of an inch, which the builders filled with mortar.

Gary Stearman:
Who filled with mortar?

Ken Klein:
The builders of the Great Pyramid put mortar in between the joints. If it’s 1/50th of an inch, isn’t that tight enough? What’s the point of the mortar? Obviously, it was to keep out seawater—they sealed that thing up. How long would it have taken? It couldn’t have been done in a 20-year period. No way.

J. R. Church:
And how many casing stones?

Ken Klein:
We calculate 144,000—which is another fascinating number, isn’t it? There’s just no way Herodotus’ calculations were accurate. It would have taken a lot longer.

Gary Stearman:
So basically, the Egyptians didn’t build the Great Pyramid?

Ken Klein:
They did not. At first, I tried to work through the Department of Antiquities in Cairo with Dr. Hawass. I could make no progress. It’s very difficult to work with bureaucracy in Egypt. I found out you could not film inside the Great Pyramid—it was against the law—and I knew I had to film inside. They wanted to charge a lot of money for a licensing fee and limit where I could film. That wasn’t going to work. So I decided to “sneak” into Egypt.

There were places I wanted to go that were restricted. You were not allowed to use a tripod—it was a $10,000 fine. I had some real obstacles, but I knew the Lord wanted me to do this, because the message of the Great Pyramid is something for the world, and yet it’s suppressed by traditional Egyptian dogma.

I went for a recon trip, took some pictures, studied their security to see how to defeat it, then went back with spy cameras. We had to take two guys in with a spy camera and break it down so they wouldn’t know what we had. We practiced dressing in the dark in my hotel so that, when we went inside, we could reassemble everything with our eyes closed in about two minutes. We went in and filmed.

J. R. Church:
What do you mean by “spy camera”?

Ken Klein:
I bought an Indiana Jones hat and had sweat holes put into it. I put a small camera—about the size of a half-dollar—inside to shoot out one of those holes. Then I had an iPod it connected to. We recorded inside. We actually got busted three times—once in front of the Great Pyramid by security, and somehow we just walked through. Another time, across from the Sphinx, there’s a three-story building—a Kentucky Fried Chicken—with a spectacular view of the Great Pyramid and the Sphinx from the third floor to the east. We were filming; the police busted us, but we got away. Another time we almost got caught inside and slipped away. The Lord really watched over us. We would have lost our equipment, owed $10,000, maybe gone to jail—but we were blessed. It was dangerous, but it had to be done.

Gary Stearman:
One more thing. English archaeologists back in the 19th century visited the Pyramid, started measuring it, and one of them claimed to have found an inscription. This brings us to another subject: all over Egypt everything has inscriptions, but the Great Pyramid is notably free of any inscription except for one red ochre inscription found by a man named Howard Vyse. He claimed to have found the name “Khufu”—and you mention this in your video.

Ken Klein:
Anyone who has studied this carefully has come to the conclusion he was a fraud. He was looking for a way to fund his expeditions; he was running out of money. He was in a race with another fellow, and he thought, “What could be of more significance than authorship of the Great Pyramid?” We know he dynamited his way into the upper relieving chambers above the King’s Chamber—there are five. No sensible archaeologist would use dynamite. They use toothbrushes and toothpicks, not TNT. He dynamited into those upper chambers; he was the only one in there that we know of. Strangely, in a strange place, not written well, is the name “Koufti,” not even “Khufu.” Of course this is one of the evidences used by Dr. Hawass and traditionalists as a tenet upon which they build their Tomb Theory. It’s a fraud, and yet it perpetuates to this day. They protect that dogma. That’s why I had to go in secretly with spy cameras and work under the radar.

Most of the world believes the Great Pyramid is the tomb of Khufu (Cheops), but the things upon which that theory rests are all false.

J. R. Church:
Let me ask about the “Inventory Stele.” Tell us how you found it and what it says about the builder of the Great Pyramid.

Ken Klein:
The “Inventory Stele” (or Stella/stele—either pronunciation) was known decades ago; recently the knowledge of it has been covered over. Decades ago, when it was deciphered and understood, it recorded that Khufu claimed he was not the builder of the Great Pyramid—that he was only doing repair work on it. Not only that, he was doing repair work on the Sphinx, and that he only built three smaller pyramids (the three small pyramids southwest of Menkaure’s Pyramid) for his family members. Those are in disrepair compared to the great ones. He never claimed to be the builder of the Great Pyramid; in fact, he said he was not.

I went looking for this stele. In the Cairo Museum they told me it was over by the Sphinx. I found it—but it’s covered over with wood and metal so you cannot read it. No one will open it. They’re suppressing its truth to maintain the integrity of their dogma.

Another fascinating thing: wherever you go in Egypt—Luxor, Saqqara’s Step Pyramid—on their temples and tombs, everywhere you look, there are hieroglyphics and wall paintings depicting Egyptian life—hunting with spears, carrying geese over their shoulders. Everywhere—except you cannot find anything in or on the Great Pyramid, or on Khafre’s Pyramid, or on Menkaure’s Pyramid. Nothing. It’s conspicuous by its absence. The only conclusion: they were built before the pharaonic period, before they honored the gods of Egypt. There’s no honor to any of the gods. You’d think whoever built them would honor the god he worshipped—but there’s nothing.

J. R. Church:
The Egyptians were idolatrous. They did not worship Jehovah and were opposed to Him. Yet we have in Isaiah: “In that day there shall be an altar to the Lord in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to the Lord.” Mentioning the Great Pyramid as an altar to the Lord. How could the Egyptians have built an altar to the Lord? That’s the big question.

Ken Klein:
That’s a great thought. It goes right to our point. The Egyptians are Hamitic—they come from Ham. Shem, Ham, and Japheth were the sons of Noah. Kush, Ham’s son, was Nimrod, who built the Tower of Babel, which appears to be another pyramid. After the dispersion of the three lines of the human race from Mesopotamia to all parts of the world, the Hamitic people went down into Egypt and established the Egyptian Dynasty. That’s when it likely started—and the Pyramid was already there when they got there.

Not only that, but you see pharaonic egocentricity everywhere—every pharaoh tried to outdo his predecessor (Ramses’ giant statues, for example). At Luxor, every new build is bigger. But on the Giza Plateau, the first pyramid built was the Great Pyramid—the first wonder of the world—and every subsequent one is smaller. The egocentric pattern is absent from the three pyramids at Giza. Each subsequent pyramid is smaller. When you couple that with their alignment with the stars in Orion’s belt, this seems like a reflection—a star map on earth trying to tell us something. This was built with such precision and attention to the stars that it goes beyond the capacity of primitive people carrying geese and spears. Where did this technology come from? It certainly couldn’t have come from the Egyptians; they didn’t have it.

J. R. Church:
Today, if you take the surface of the earth—highest mountain, lowest valley—and compute the average altitude of the planet, it would be exactly the height of the Great Pyramid.

Ken Klein:
That’s correct—the average mean altitude. The Great Pyramid was built to that height. That technology is beyond the capability of ancient Egyptians.

Not only that, they had to be the greatest land surveyors ever, because they built the Great Pyramid exactly at the center of the earth in relation to land mass. They didn’t have ships to travel the oceans to draw maps. They didn’t have satellite pictures. They did this without a compass. And they built it on probably the only place that could maintain its weight—a solid granite plateau—right at the center of the fertile crescent of the Nile. To be placed there with all that criteria could only have been done at the Giza Plateau—and they found it. How, if not from some kind of supernatural intelligence telling them where to build it?

Gary Stearman:
Most likely this is the “foundation stone of the earth” that was spoken of to Job—“Where were you when I…”—a prophecy pointing to the Almighty.

J. R. Church:
It was built in the only place it could have been built. When Moses built the Tabernacle, God said “build it according to this pattern,” and God gave him the pattern. When Noah built the boat, I’m confident God gave him the plans exactly. Whoever built the Great Pyramid—most likely the sons of Seth; Enoch was the seventh generation from Adam—also got plans from God.

Ken Klein:
It says Enoch walked with God and “he was not, for God took him.” What’s interesting about the word God in our modern translations is the word Elohim. Elohim is the plural of eloah. Eloah is only mentioned one time in all the Bible—it’s most likely where the Arabs got the name Allah from. Elohim is the plural of the Almighty. So Enoch walked with Elohim. Enoch walked with angels, and it was angels that came in, according to First Chronicles 28:18, “in ships” (which is fascinating), and counseled him and taught him how to build this thing—the dimensionality, the science that would have to go into it.

The Pyramid is built so that the base is actually curved on each side at the same proportion as the circumference of the earth. Enoch knew—and the people who built it knew—that the earth was round at least 3,000 years before Christ, a knowledge that wouldn’t come to us until much later. They were still arguing the earth was flat in Columbus’ time. These people had supernatural knowledge.

J. R. Church:
You’ve got to get this DVD. It’s a documentary a little over an hour long. It talks about the various technologies that go into the Great Pyramid, when it showed up, how long it’s been around, the casing stones—and more. We’ve just run out of time. I hope you’ll get it today. Gary, last word.

Gary Stearman:
I want to thank Ken Klein. This is exciting for me. We’re going to continue our studies. I know you’re studying now to do another video.

Ken Klein:
Yes, that’s true. Thanks for being here.

J. R. Church:
Gary and J. R.—thanks for having me on the program. It’s all in The Pillar of Enoch: The Lost Legend of the Great Pyramid video. It’s an excellent presentation, very professionally done. Ken Klein produced this Great Pyramid video. I want you to get it. This is J. R. Church and Gary Stearman. Until next time, keep looking up.

Postscript (Producer’s Note):
Since the airing of this program, we have now completed our three-part Pyramid series. The first film is The Great Pyramid: Lost Legend of Enoch; the second, Message from the Stars; and the third, Gateway to the Galaxy. Each film offers a unique and compelling insight into deep mysteries of the universe—the knowledge of which was lost long ago but nevertheless encrypted into the Great Pyramid—and has now been deciphered.

These films will not be available in any bookstore, nor will they be seen on cable or network television. Release to the general public will not be until later in the year. When it does come out, the three-part series will retail for $75. But because you have become acquainted with my films and supported our work, I want to make the powerful three-film series available to you for just $49. It’s my gift and my way of saying thanks for your support once again. And I want to thank you for helping me produce these important films.